Nicolás Redondo speaks from the tranquility of who sees politics from the outside, but not for that reason he is more oblivious to her or less worried. Receive La Razón after analyzing the UCO report that indicates to the one who was until Thursday right hand of Pedro Sánchez for alleged bites in works contracts. It reflects a fed up, not only because of the corruption that affects its party, but also detects a crisis of the political system. He believes that Pedro Sánchez should call elections, but not only for corruption, but for an “impossible government.” Ask for a new time to reverse the damage to justice and institutions. And ask to end the Frentist politics. «Moderation, common sense, yes. “Not Bildu or Rufián, but the opposite of Abascal,” he recommends.
Sánchez has encapsulated the crisis sacrificing Santos Cerdán. Is it enough to apologize?
It will not be enough. These serious episodes always find the top leaders off guard. And the reactions they cause are never enough. Pedro Sánchez still believes that he got the question to end, but it will not end because when the sludge goes down the hillside it is impossible to stop it. I am worried about all that but we are also in a political crisis as we had never met.
Do you think Sánchez knew nothing?
I think that retail and everything that is around these corruption cases did not know it and does not have to know. I think I knew the severity of what was happening, at least lately, because everything indicates that the strategy against the UCO and some other issues were aimed at hindering that investigation of the Civil Guard. The Civil Guard and the National Police deserve the utmost respect.
There are indications of the UCO that point to the irregular financing of the PSOE. Do you believe it?
There have always been corruption cases, this is inevitable. You have to be very careful and wait for judges to establish responsibilities. The Spanish political parties have a pending subject, which is the financing of the parties and is because there has been no great agreement that reassures everyone and that the parties become what they are, only one more piece of the democratic system, not the fundamental piece.
Has the legitimacy of Sánchez was touched: his arrival with a motion of censure to corruption and the primary 2014?
I think that Pedro Sánchez has been touched with this and what ethics imposes would be to call elections. But not only for what is happening, but because the legislature has been impossible. It should never be started. It is an impossible government because it agreed in Brussels with a person who cannot step on Spanish territory. The Government survives for the support of Bildu, who has not made the moral journey that an ETA heir party has to have to give up that has never resigned from that legacy. This legislature is possible because it is supported by ERC, by Junts. All this is decaying to Spain. And that is why this case of corruption or others that come out are more serious, because they cause more hopelessness. In previous times, the hope of citizens did not disappear, although corruption caused a visceral rejection, but people felt that the country worked. Today, that case of corruption is framed in an offensive against the Civil Guard, but also with a reform of justice, which will make it a floor out of the government, where the Prosecutor’s Office loses the little independence that it may have now, it will be hierarchized more and will become another instrument of the government. With that reform in progress, today the UCO would not have acted freely.
Why do you think Sánchez refuses to call elections?
It has few incentives to do it. It has partners who will continue to support him even if they become accomplices. In that area it can have a certain tranquility and as what it is about is to be in the government and not to govern, that for him is enough. And in the party, there is no possibility of confrontation, because it is pacified, despite the voices of Page, Lambán or Felipe González. Therefore, he has no reason to call elections except that things get worse. There is no clearer political corruption than the CIS. In one of the worst moments of the PSOE it takes seven points ahead to the PP. If that were true, if you believed it would already call elections because it would be the best possible situation.
“Sánchez is very quiet because there is no one willing to fight on the contrary”
Do you think you should leave?
It is a very personal decision. For me, yes, I should leave. If Sanchez believed that he has done well and that he has no responsibilities in the case, I would convene and introduce me, because he cannot govern.
Has Sánchez’s mistake been to surround himself with a team of faithful, unable to take the opposite to the leader?
Only for caution, knowing what had happened to the Secretary of the previous Organization, it was not reasonable to re -ratify Cerdán. I don’t say it, they were discussing it themselves. It was necessary to be extremely careful and did not leave. Sánchez has never had a great team, or broad. For example, Felipe González had very diverse people, from Alfonso Guerra, and the Andalusians, the middle-class of Madrid with Solana, Carlos Solchaga who came from Navarra, the UGT, to the Asturian trade unionism. There was no corruption at the base that supported him. It also happened in the case of Zapatero. The support base for Sánchez has been small and has not been brilliant. The example of that is that the mediator with Puigdemont has been Cerdán. It is clear that he was not the appropriate person for a complicated negotiation with Junts. Sánchez has a team of gladiators, people who beat in the sand for him.
Do you see an anti-Sanchez rebellion or it is still impossible?
I don’t know what will happen in the PSOE. The PSOE has never inherited by anyone, has conquered. Zapatero conquered him and Sánchez has also won it. I see that Sanchez is very quiet because there is no one who is willing to fight in the opposite of what it represents. It’s not about winning in the first fight, not even winning next year. If not to say I think differently, I am against agreeing with Bildu and Carles Puigdemont. I don’t want an amnesty law. Let it be said I have another vision of Spanish democratic socialism, I do not want you to agree with Podemos. I see that it is difficult to happen, because Sánchez will continue to dominate the game, unless this is out of control. With what is happening the PSOE cannot stay saying that it hurts in the soul what happens. We have to say I represent something else.
“Clear political corruption is that of CIS. If your data were true, it would convene elections”
It seems pessimistic with the future of the PSOE Who can conquer it? Eduardo Madina sounds in recent days as a possible relay to Sánchez and could recongest the support of a more moderate PSOE.
I have the best impression of Madina. You agree with him or not, he has great value because he has his own criteria. He has managed to get away from politics, he has not fondabilized or used his personal situation. It has a lot of merit. I don’t know what encouragement he has to undertake that arduous task. With him there are others that could. It is Lobato, who has been hit hard. Iignacio Urquizu or Mikel Torres. There are people, but are they willing to make that sacrifice? Don’t know.
That attempt to rise primary to the party in a pessimistic sensation.
I made the first primaries in Spain, against Rosa Díez. I won them. I did not believe in the primary and every time I believe less. The primaries put them as opposed to representative democracy and representative democracy is as democracy as that direct democracy. In the matches, they submit to the bases to unnecessary tensions. The primary I lived had enough security to trust the results. I think that Sánchez won too. That one asks for another that puts two ballots, puts chicken meat, but I do not think that Sánchez has legitimacy problems.
Should the PP present a motion of censure, at the risk of losing it?
Don’t know. I am tending to respect the spirit of the Constitution. The censorship vote is a positive vote and with a certain possibility to win the presidency of the Government. As long as that possibility do not have it, I am not in favor of using it. I don’t know what the PP has to do. What I know is what Spain needs, agreement. And this is impossible with Frentist politics. We need a reformist policy. Also a sanitation of some of the country’s institutions. Leave justice. Desokupar public companies. Recover the role of Congress. Common than ideological sense. Moderation and reformism. Spanish politics is dominated by a party like Bildu or Rufián. We need otherwise, but the opposite is not abascal.