Juan de Ávalos Carballo: «If they want revenge for the Civil War, they only have to touch this cross»

The sculptor’s son, whose best-known work is in the Valley of the Fallenthe abandonment of the monument to Dr. Jiménez Díaz, also created by his father, located in Madrid’s Plaza de Cristo Rey. “Even the fountain had been invaded by squatters and now it seems that it has been fenced off. It’s a shame.” Juan de Avalos Carballo He arrives with his wife to the meeting in Cuelgamuros with the ever-present father figure in tow. At 83 years old, he has done everything in his power to safeguard the family legacy, but he has reached his limit. “Now it’s time to pass the baton, it’s already hard for me”.

He has put a whole art sample on salebut it is in this corner of the Guadarrama mountain range where the great regret of this architect lies, witness to the birth of some stone carvings that are today in complete decline.

The Evangelists are literally falling apart.

That’s right. I’ve been working with my father for a long time on many monuments and I’ve seen this one come into being; it’s very painful. I’ve had to do a brainwashing to keep from going crazy. Because of the pressure of seeing this thing fall and the indifference of some and others to the destruction of the heritage of the Spanish and of humanity, which is a monument like this. But I’m not surprised at all. It’s something that’s common since Alexander the Great, when he destroyed Persepolis, or when the Catholics, the Christians, then, of Constantinople, destroyed all the Greek and Roman temples and only a few survived, like Heliopolis, because they couldn’t destroy such ashlars. Unfortunately, we have recently suffered this with the Islamists destroying Palmyra. There are always bad people who want to try to change history, but it is impossible, because, as you will understand, when 1,000, 10,000, 50,000, 100,000 years pass, the stones, the granites of Risco de la Nava will still be there, and on them the carved stones and the calatoraos of the men who left part of their lives here to give others a great work.

The Pietà was repaired years ago. Is what is happening now reversible?

Yes, it is absolutely feasible, for a very simple reason. We have the original models and the enlargements can be made exactly the same. On the contrary, it is even easier. Because at this time, instead of that tremendous work of a dot-puncher –we were still doing it like the Romans–, there are now five-arm plotters that make a very approximate reproduction and that would only need a few touch-ups for those pieces. But what must always be done is to conserve, because here the problem is laziness, laziness and laziness.

Furthermore, the deterioration is not only affecting the sculptures, but the facilities in general, and the threat of their destruction is ever present.

Indeed, but according to the pieces of granite stone that are here, to destroy all this it would take a lot of C Four (plastic explosive).

You were a teenager when your father became involved in Cuelgamuros.

Yes, I was 17 or 18 years old. I attended lunchtime when my father arrived from El Pardo after speaking with Franco and getting the first news of what they were doing, of what could be done.

His father said that, after that interview, Franco decided to erase any bellicose traits, that is, not to reproduce battles or episodes of the Civil War.

Indeed, it was decided that there should be no warlike representation in the representations, that they should be limited to religious themes. My father advised that the clash between the two sides should be avoided and it should be a monument to reconciliation. That is what I have heard, because my mother was also very much in favour of reconciliation. She had suffered a lot when my father was persecuted in Mérida and in fact a purge file was made against him, but thanks to the intervention of a doctor, Muñoz Calero, and my grandfather, who was a commissioner in Badajoz, he was saved from being shot when Yagüe’s troops arrived. My mother never forgot those days of waiting. Then when Zapatero arrived she thought of other things, but they really had a very bad time. I am a great fan of the sport of hunting and target shooting. My father hated weapons, he could not see me with a shotgun.

His father had a PSOE membership card.

Yes, you have to understand that he was the trusted person of Nieto Carmona, the PSOE mayor in Mérida. One day he was assigned to the excavations; in fact he had the joy of finding the veiled head of Augustus in the peristyle of the theatre. He made some beautiful drawings, because at that time we didn’t have an iPhone to take photos, so he went with his notebook and when it was discovered, he made some very beautiful notes that we have in the collection.

And it was precisely that republican past that almost made him give up his work in the Valley.

At home we received anonymous death notices from both sides. The sculptors of the Orduna and Adsuara regime protested strongly because they had commissioned my father, who was a red. But there is one thing that is fundamental here. The difference between certain people, between one leader and another, is that, if they have an objective, they do not look at the affiliation of the person. They have an objective and they look for the person who is capable of doing it. And Franco found my father. “You are the sculptor that Spain needs.” These are Franco’s words about my father (when he visited a national exhibition and saw his work “Dead Hero”). He knew perfectly well that he was the one who could solve it. We have photos of how this was built and with what means, with a carpentry shop… It is incredible how fortunate it was that there were no major work accidents in construction when helmets were berets and safety shoes were espadrilles.

Returning to your father, there are those who might think that he was a Franco supporter, but that is not the case at all.

No, not at all. The relationship with Franco was one of mutual respect. You can think whatever you want at a given time in a company, what is required of you are results. Now, there were people who were much more sectarian, and there are everywhere, both in politics and in football. Those kinds of people did continue to attack him and make his life impossible. In fact, that continues today, that is, the sectarians continue to think that he did an extraordinary work that brings prestige to Franco’s regime. Because it is the truth, he did a work that contributed to making this something impressive; my father has deserved awards from nine academies, including the one in Moscow. The sculpture students came every year with the director of the Moscow Academy of Fine Arts to be taught how these works were made with the means that were available at that time. Finding someone who was capable of doing this… There had been quite a few tests with quite a few sculptors. My father, even frightened by the volume of the work, at one point tried to get several sculptors to collaborate with him, but it didn’t work out.

It is interesting to see what he would have thought when he found out that there was a project (brought to the Senate by Podemos) to blow up the cross. He said that it seemed incredible to him that someone wanted to blow up his work, but it happened in Valdepeñas.

The Angel of Valdepeñas was easier. It was a sculpture with a construction system similar to that of the Statue of Liberty, that is, it was made of copper sheets on a metal structure; it was practically a bell. If you make a hole and put an explosion under it, it can easily blow up. Everything can be blown up, but I am absolutely convinced that there will be many people who, if someone tries to blow up this cross, will defend it with their lives. If someone wants to try to take revenge for the Civil War, they have nothing more to do than touch the cross, I am convinced.

The “Pieta” of Avalos in the Valley of the FallenThe reasonThe reason

How did your father experience the explosion in Valdepeñas in 1976?

Well, we are already very used to attacks at home, because logically when there is a government with one political characteristic or another, then there is always an attempt to destroy absurd things. As you can understand, 400,000 million years left for this planet to become extinct in our galaxy is a long time. In other words, the historical memory of 30 to 40 years is a pittance compared to what that is. As I said before, you have to see the number of monuments that have been destroyed in the world and at this moment they are still talking about them and some are even named heritage. Destroy? We have already experienced several destructions and we continue to experience them.

What happened to the workshop that your father called El Rastro and all his work under the direction of the Juan de Ávalos Foundation that you direct?

After his death we tried to promote his sculpture and his art again. Because he was from Mérida, we managed to hold a large exhibition with the Popular Party in the Assembly of Extremadura. Then we held a large exhibition in the Palacio de la Isla, in Cáceres, and in the meantime we managed to create a museum in Mérida, in the El Costurero building. It was an agreement with the Popular Party mayor, when the PP fell and the Socialist Party was set up in Mérida, the museum, where there are some 30 or so, 40 of my father’s most important works, was closed, saying that it had leaks and it has been closed for 5 years until we broke the agreement, because it has not been fulfilled, and at this moment the work is at the disposal of the first person who takes it, be it Mérida, Trujillo, Madrid, Mexico, Paraguay, Argentina… If it has to leave Spain, it will have to leave Spain.

The restored work is valued, according to some sources, at 360 million euros.

It can have immense value; let’s see, things are worth what you pay for them. A work that is currently being politically singled out by some, as we all know, because my father is involved in this monument. And by others, for being cowards. I have to do a brainwashing. Because we are fighting for the Valley to be declared a Site of Cultural Interest and, nevertheless, the Community of Madrid has decided to give protection to a graffiti of Muelle. Well, wonderful. And, nevertheless, this, which had hundreds of thousands of visits a year, which could be and is an exceptional monument, heritage of all Spaniards, wants to be re-signified. I believe that the best thing that the Socialist Party could do is to re-signify itself.

What do you think could happen when there is already a ministerial commission to, in theory, give a new meaning to the Valley?

Let’s hope that we arrive in time to re-signify the thoughts of some. Because, let’s see, approximately 80.47% of Spaniards declare themselves Christians. There are Catholics, there are evangelicals, there are all kinds, but people who adore and love the cross. Re-signifying a cross is practically impossible, it will always mean the same thing, unless you want to destroy it. Now, if you try to destroy a cross with that percentage of the population against it, I fear that the final result could be disastrous. If there is any way to start a conflict between brothers, it could be exactly to tear down the cross or try to do so.