He has just published his latest book: The Answer. In it, paleontologist Juan Luis Arsuaga takes on the role of the tribe’s shaman to address and tell us about the amazing journey of human evolution. However, in its pages it not only brings us closer to the past of thousands of years ago, but also talks about what continues to concern and characterize human beings: immortality, AI or the great question about the meaning of life.
Have we changed much since we were Homo sapiens?
Since we became Homo sapiens, the planet has changed, we have not. I always say that if aliens arrived about 14,000 years ago, they would see the painters of Altamira and say: “Look, a species that paints!” If they came back now, they wouldn’t be able to believe the transformation of the planet. We are the same biologically as those of Altamira, but the planet is different. They would be surprised just seeing the Earth at night. They would see that we have totally transformed it. They would see the dammed rivers, that we have been able to use energy to produce things, etc. In other words, we have mastered the forces of nature. They would be very surprised.
And now, where are we at?
We are in a big mess because the planet is not renewable, natural resources are limited. If you think about it, the dynamic, until now, has been very constant. A civilization appears in a particularly fertile corner of the planet, which feeds many people; If not, it would not develop. Create a civilization, an empire, and wipe it all out. It runs out of resources and then conquers another territory, until it also runs out of resources and spreads. This is the history of civilization and it was very good when there were reserve continents or the sea, but finally the sea is also distributed, exploited and depleted. We have a small problem because the dynamics until now have been anything but sustainable and it would be in our best interest if it were, because we no longer have fish…
And to that we add climate change?
Climate change is not what worries me most; It is a consequence of industrial development. I am much more concerned, for example, that the Spanish population basically eats pork, chicken, salmon and cereals. There are more pigs than people in Spain. The model is not sustainable because it has never been sustainable; Nor was it for the Sumerians. All this begins with the tribal phenomenon, before agriculture and livestock. The formation of ethnic groups or tribes and the feeling of belonging to a culture and civilization are not so important for the planet during the Pleistocene because there were many resources available…
So the solution is to end the tribe?
That would help a lot; Now the problems are global. Climate change is a good example. The danger is in Putin, of course. And in Trump… in the tribes. People are surprised, but we live in an empire like so many others, like that of Philip II, a hegemonic power… What has not changed anything is the human being; That’s the only thing we can be sure of. It is the same as Shakespeare: jealousy, love, ambition, greed. If we were not the same we would not understand Romeo and Juliet. We understand it because we are the same.
But now we have AI. Will it change us?
What are we going to use artificial intelligence for? Well, for the usual. Pornography. Also for education, leisure… That is, for the good and the bad. What we do is go around the same thing. It’s funny to me because people worry about artificial intelligence, but all the programs talk about the same thing, the ones on the islands and the others, about one that gets involved with a… Not about philosophy. And they are the most watched programs and they talk about the usual stuff.
But don’t you think that AI can become self-aware?
I don’t think so; It doesn’t seem to me that self-awareness is going to happen. The thing is, you can simulate it so well that what’s the difference? They say that the first driverless cars are going to be put into circulation. We are going to see it, but from there to thinking that the car has consciousness there is a difference. Consciousness is different from cognitive, analysis or problem-solving abilities. I believe that you cannot reach consciousness in one leap, because you must first go through the ability to feel. Consciousness has been achieved in a long evolutionary process of billions of years. A tube radio is not going to make you think. I have an evolutionary perspective. Self-awareness cannot arise in an animal, in an organism, in a machine or in whatever you want that does not feel anything; It is a product of the ability to feel emotions, to have an inner world. The machine first has to have an inner life. In evolution it is necessary to take many steps; You don’t jump from one place and arrive at another. If all these steps are taken in the future… I am looking forward to the day when no one asks me about AI, and soon.
Because?
Well, because now no one asks me what I think of the virtual bank or payment cards, right? With AI, people will get used to it and stop asking. I mean we assimilate the changes and with AI it will be the same.
Don’t you think it’s going to be so disruptive?
Nothing. We don’t realize that what is amazing is the human mind, how it assimilates changes. Notice that I, and even you, have put stamps on the letters. Do you remember when you started paying with a card? It will seem incredible to you: there were paper newspapers and booths called kiosks. Can you believe there are no markets anymore? You get used to it. That’s what’s really surprising: how quickly human beings assimilate changes.
He talks about immortality in the book and does not give it any credibility.
Immortality is a hoax.
How far do you think life can be prolonged?
Reasonably so, as far as we live. My mother is 95 years old and she is doing great. I hope I have inherited your genes, because I would love to be talking to you in 25 years, to continue thinking and enjoying. We must try to ensure that most people reach those ages, at one hundred years old. The more, the better. That is viable, of course. There are people who are 95 years old and write wonderful books, paint or compose symphonies and enjoy life. Now, from there to live a thousand years, well no.
So that?
Well, I don’t care; I really like this party and I don’t want to leave, I had a great time. As long as we are in good condition… It is about improving the quality of life. In other words, if I have a disease, they cure me.
He also talks in the book about life on other planets. What is the possibility that there is life and, furthermore, it is intelligent and we come into contact?
There is a lot of extraterrestrial life. A lot, but at the bacterial level. We know, it’s not speculation… Meteorites or asteroids are full of the building blocks of life: amino acids, nitrogenous gases and organic chemistry. However, from there to it being intelligent… On this planet it has taken 4,000 million years. I believe that intelligent life is extremely rare. So extremely rare that the chance of intelligent life in a galaxy is 1%. Does that seem little to you? Now they say there are a million million galaxies. But even if we leave it at, for example, 100,000; That gives us a billion. It’s not bad, but it’s rare, a rare phenomenon. But there’s a problem: there’s no way to travel from one galaxy to another. I can’t think of how we are going to communicate.
And that should leave us alone, right? Because it says in the book that we are not good people.
Humans do, man. We are good people among ourselves, but within each tribe. I would like to contact you. The first thing I would ask them would be: “How have you solved the problem of sustainability?” Aliens come, we ask them that question and they answer: “We haven’t solved it; “That’s why we come to your planet.” That’s very likely what happened, because I can’t think of how they’re going to build a technological civilization on another planet without exhausting it. It is as if an African had asked the colonizers: “How have you solved the problem of sustainability in your country?” And the settler would answer: «We have finished everything, that is why we are here. Now let’s go to their forests.
The book is called The Answer. How many questions do you have left to ask?
Many. I think something wonderful is going to happen. A new stage of science begins: the science of complexity. Until now we studied the basics; We couldn’t understand the complexity. We are in the best moment of science and AI is going to be very good for us, because to address the study of complexity we need tools with great calculation capacity.
But a great computing capacity that is based on a great consumption of resources.
Exactly.
We once again have a development and sustainability problem.
Very fat, that’s why I say I don’t know how we’re going to get out of this.
Why do you use the role of the old shaman of the tribe to write this book?
Because it’s the one that touches me, first. And second, because you have to take advantage of my experience. I have met many of those who have asked questions and I have a privileged view. When I disappear, no one will be able to tell this story.
He says in the book that a scientist friend asks him again years after their last meeting if he has found what he was looking for. Have you found it?
No, because if not, I wouldn’t keep looking. Maybe there is no answer and it’s just a search. Maybe we are made to search. The researcher, what is he looking for? What was Einstein looking for? He searches all the time. He doesn’t know, but he searches. If you asked Einstein if he was satisfied, he would say no. But neither did Newton. Newton said: “What I have found is not the answer! What I have done is a little something to get by, but I have not been satisfied. Epicurus would say: “Enjoy.” That’s the Epicurean answer to the existential problem: don’t waste time crying. You have been given a wonderful life to enjoy thousands of possibilities and you still complain? Enjoy what you have, it is a gift. I try to apply it.